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Brazil is too cautious in summit negotiations, says Rio+20 coordinator

05/08/2012 - 15h36

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CLAUDIO ANGELO
SPECIAL REPORT FROM NEW YORK

Brice Lalonde nods his head towards a diplomat that is snoring on one of the sofas in the lobby of the UN Headquarter in New York and smiles. "You see? That's the negotiation right there."

The former French Minister for the Environment and Executive Coordinator of Rio+20 is worried about the slow pace at which the world is moving towards the summit on sustainable development in June.

He says that countries "lack the imagination" to produce a document that will put the planet on the path to a green economy because no one can say what that economy should look like. "Who is the Adam Smith of the green economy?" he asks.

In an interview with Folha, he claims that Brazil as the host country has the responsibility to show more leadership, but Itamaraty, the Brazilian foreign ministry, is "a little too cautious." He mentions the Forest Code that was recently revised by the Brazilian Congress, suggesting that it threatens Brazil's international position:

"It was necessary to reform the code, but now it has been reformed too much."

*

Folha - How would you evaluate the progess towards Rio+20?
Brice Lalonde - It's very slow and very frustrating.

What are you most worried about at this point?
Imagination. It's difficult to understand the magnitude of the problem. Of course there are other problems like the short timeline, national elections, and the attention directed at the economic crisis, so it's hard to create a real international moment.

About a month ago in Manaus you said that countries should not come to Rio if they're not ready to commit. What kind of commitment should they have made already?
The truth is that there are a lot of things already happening within countries that they should recognize. Many countries are doing more on their own than they're willing to put in an international agreement.

What is keeping countries from putting certain things on the table?
They don't want anyone to limit them. For example, let's say you start a renewable energy policy, but you don't know what's going to happen with the price of oil. If the price falls, your renewable energy program is going to be set back. Countries prefer to actually do more than they say they're going to do. Which is a good thing, by the way. Of course, some countries don't like international obligations because they feel like they're losing their sovereignty.

Is there a risk that the conference in Rio is going to end without producing anything that society can identify as a concrete result?
The United Nations is just a group of united nations. We have a saying: people have the government they deserve. And countries have the United Nations they deserve. The UN tries to do things, but if it tries to do too much, people say, "Oh, well you're just a secretary." Ban Ki-Moon is the Secretary-General, he's not the president.

Action starts at the national level. The idea for Rio is to be a collective agreement on what each country can do: what the tools should be and, most exciting of all, how we should define the Sustainable Development Goals. I also hope that countries can agree on certain action for the common good.

For example?
For example, a process for reaching our goals for sustainable energy. Or for water. We also need to have a discussion about how we measure success. Today we have the GDP, which measures how much people buy and sell, but that's not necessarily what's good for a society.

We need a better accounting system. This means agreeing on a process to create such a system.

The scope of the Rio+20 conference is much broader than just the environment. How are we going to live in sustainable cities in the next 20 years? How are we going to sustainably produce food in the next 20 years? This is what Rio+20 is all about. It's about everything! And that's why this issue of imagination is so complicated.

What did you think about the Brazilian Forest Code? Would you recommend a certain action for President Dilma?
Of course not! (laughs) I thought that the text from the Senate was good. But that's all I can say without meddling in internal politics. I understand that the old Forest Code was no longer applicable, so it was necessary to reform it. But maybe now it's been reformed too much(laughs). We need to find the balance.

As the Coordinator, what worries you about the lack of political weight at Rio+20?
As a representative at the United Nations, I worry about the lack of leadership. It's always very important that a country or a group of countries take a leadership role in what they think should be done. That's how to make sure that it happens.

Is Brazil leading the negotiation in the way that you hoped?
(Pauses. Looks at his assistant, Pierre Cannet). What can I say? Not until June? (laughs) Itamaraty, the Brazilian foreign ministryis a powerful but very cautious organization. Being bold means that you might lose, but if you win, you win the jackpot. If you are too cautious, you're not going to win as much. The Brazilian negotiators are very good. But they're a little too cautious.

I know that's it's hard for them, because they have to guarantee the presence of the heads of state. It's a hard game to play, not just for Brazil, but for civil society as well. Who has the answer? Who knows what's the right thing to do?

Translated by ANNA EDGERTON

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